375: 3 Questions That Reveal What a Child Really Needs With Stephanie Corley

What if we stopped waiting for a diagnosis before supporting a child who needs help? Stephanie Corley joins Kate Woodward Young to explore early intervention, developmental concerns, exceptionalities, and supporting children in early childhood education. They discuss how tools like ASQs and Teaching Strategies GOLD can help educators recognize concerns early, partner with families, and take action without labeling or making assumptions.

From navigating difficult conversations with parents to understanding autism, selective mutism, hearing concerns, and developmental delays, Stephanie shares practical guidance for early childhood educators, directors, and childcare leaders. If you want to become the educator who notices what others miss and knows what to do next, this is an episode you won’t want to miss.

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Transcript

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Childcare Conversations 0:00

Welcome to Child Care Conversations, the podcast where early childhood leaders like you get real-world strategies, honest talk, and a whole lot of support. Whether you're running one center or many, we're here to help you lead with confidence and clarity. This episode is brought to you by this quarter's sponsor, Playground, the all-in-one child care management software. We're all about managing monkeys and saving you time at your center. With this platform, you can. We're proud to partner with a team that's as committed to your success as we are. Learn more at TriPlayground.com. Now, let's get into today's conversation. One we think you're really going to love.

Kate Woodward Young 0:48

We are so glad that you are joining us today. Um, and nothing like trying to make the guests laugh right as I hit the record button. So, with that, um, we brought some more folks in from Louisiana. Um, you know, love our neighboring states. For those of you who don't know, I am Kate Woodward Young. I am one of the co-hosts of Childcare Conversations, and I am based in Austin, Texas. And today's guest is Stephanie. And Stephanie comes all the way from Louisiana. And if you aren't familiar with your US geography, literally that's one state over. But um, based on where I am, she's probably actually about four and a half to five hours. So um depending on your perception of how close states are, if you're in New England, um, like like we're we're like a whole New England away from each other. So uh with that, Stephanie, tell us a little bit about how you got into early learning, how you got into childcare, and um, then I've got some questions for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Hi, everyone. So my name is Stephanie Corley. Um, the funny part of me getting into early child care was I was doing ABA therapy. And I did ABA therapy in the school systems in New Orleans. And uh one of the special education teachers, she was like, I really think that you need to look into early intervention. And I was like, Me, no, like I can't do it. And so she was like, No, you're gonna love it. Like you're really good at it. You don't see it, but I see it for you. And after a while, I thought about it and I looked into it, and I actually went into an early childhood classroom and I taught and I loved it. It was the best thing ever. So, what was your favorite part? Tell me more. I want to know what your favorite part was. Oh my goodness. You know, um, working with children with um exceptionalities, um, it brightened my horizons. You know, they are so smart and intelligent that you don't even realize half the time that, you know, they're outsmarting you. And they tell you whatever they want or they say it. Um, I had a student that when she would be mad, she would not talk. She would sign. So it pushes me to learn sign language. I had one that he could read a book backwards and frontwards, all kinds of words. And he would um, his thing that we would work on the most was handwriting and him potty training. And so he will always tell me, I'm like, okay, where does poo-poo go? And he's like, on the butt. I'm like, no, it does not. You know, it does not go on the butt. It goes in the potty. And he would be like, mm, like whatever you say, you know. And um, I had another student that he wouldn't talk. And one day, out of the blue, we were coming back from um breakfast, and I would sit in the classroom while another teacher would bring them into my class. And he said, There she is. And she said, There who is? And she said, Miss Stephanie. And I bawled. I cried so much because I'm like, he said my name. I'm like, there I am. I am here. Like, I'm here. And from there, I'm like, I she was right. She was right. That's my passion.

Kate Woodward Young 4:14

I love that. So you, so somebody else saw it in you. I think that is something to really kind of resonate and share with people. Because as leaders in early learning, a lot of times we see things in our staff long before our staff do. So if you are listening to this episode and you're a director or a lead teacher or an owner or a professor, if you see something at somebody, make sure you're telling them because a lot of times they don't see it in themselves. And I think that that teacher who told you you would really like early childhood intervention sounds like she was right on. So hopefully you have, you know, praised her and thanked her numerous times. But Stephanie, I know it doesn't stop there. You actually have like, like you out, you're out there like, you're gonna go with advocating for the kids who can't necessarily advocate for themselves. So if somebody is listening to this podcast episode or they're watching this video and they're like, I don't really know what that means, or I'm an owner or I'm a director, that's a parent thing. How do the leadership and early learning, why do they need to know? And what do they do? How do they, how can they advocate for those kids? How can they be little Stephanies in their program?

SPEAKER_02 5:35

So what they can do is um ASQs. So if they're doing ASQs within their system or they're doing um teaching strategies gold, um, they can actually use those to kind of refer the child off to early intervention um posts um where they can receive assistance if they see the delay in that child. They can also communicate with the parents and let them know um that those children are meeting those developmental milestones. So often when I go into schools and I'm talking with them, I'm actually working with them through the process and I actually talk to parents if they know that the parent may be um in a denial space because it is difficult to kind of say that child has a disability. I often go in there and I say, well, call the parent and let me speak to the parent. And I explain to them um early intervention doesn't last always. You can have the best of the best therapies, and that child may have you from birth to one and by age one, age out of the program. They may not need the services, or they've done so good by age three, they might not need to transfer over to the school system. So we are the starting points, and we can't fear that that child doesn't have that developmental um need, or they don't need that assistance, and it's not our place. It is our place. We're educators first, and we also I also um tell the the owners and the directors that they need to provide training for teachers. Um, it's not easy having children um with autism or Down syndrome or G2 feeding tubes um in their classes because most programs do not talk about those things. Um, where I currently am an adjunct professor, I teach those classes. I teach autism 101, I teach the beginning um exceptionalities course. Um, so I work with my teachers on what it looks like in the classroom setting um on things that they can do with those children who have exceptionalities.

Kate Woodward Young 7:53

So I love the fact that you are encouraging folks to actually get specialized training. Um, I think one of the things that's really hard for a lot of teachers, and you've probably seen this, is that everybody in the school all gets the same training. But they don't all have the same kids, and even within their classroom, they don't have the same kids. So what might be questions they might ask, or what might be a great source? Because again, we've got 124 countries, we've got folks in every state. What might be uh things they might ask to know if this trainer is a qualified trainer, or you know, maybe what's the background they might want to look for for somebody who's providing this kind of specialty training for their staff?

SPEAKER_02 8:37

Um, if when was the most recent of them working in um that setting, in an early intervention setting, in a special education setting? Um are they a parent? Because parents do have background that they can assist with. Um they know their children better than we know their children. So sometimes they can ask those questions. Um, some questions I get, what activities? How can I do hand over hand? How can I do feedings? Um I actually started on my Corley Discovery Um Institute page where I do teacher tip Tuesdays and I do parent corners where I'm actually giving them those tips and those different questions that I hear all the time from teachers when I'm going in. Um, or even direct them when they're asking me questions on how can they um train those particular teachers. Um what levels should uh they look for, or what things that should they look for if the child is not giving you eye contact, or um it can be autism, but that child can also be a shy child, or it can be um a religion base that some uh religions and countries do not look you straight in the eye for communication, so you have to kind of feel it out to know um, or if the child is not talking, that sometimes children have selective mutism um where they talk to some people and don't talk to others. Um so I actually go in there and I'm like observant of the child. And you know, we talk to the parents. If I see certain things, we'll talk to the parents together because I feel like having that support and that background from somebody that has been doing this for years is what um these directors and owners need sometimes.

Kate Woodward Young 10:33

Absolutely. Difficult conversations. And for a lot of parents and a lot of directors, this is a difficult conversation. But I loved your statement early on about the earlier the intervention doesn't necessarily mean that it's gonna last forever or that it's gonna last longer. And I think that is really important, even for an educator, because I know that I have met directors and educators that are like, well, the parents are in denial, so we're just gonna keep an eye on it. And it's like, we're not doing anybody a favor, we're not doing the child any f any any favor by waiting. We're not doing the family any favor. But one of the things that I know that I struggle with, so um, in my background, um way before I actually was in early learning, I was actually in nursing care. And my second husband was a medical professional. And I know one of the things that I am kind of a stickler for is when people start to give a child a label or a diagnosis that's never actually officially had that. And I think you kind of tiptoed around it because you brought up that it could be this or it could be this or it could be this. And I think one thing I would really want to encourage everybody who's listening is don't give a child an actual medical diagnosis unless that's what you do for a living. So, unless a parent has brought you a doctor's note that says this child has been diagnosed with A, B, or C, you can do the learning, you know, you can do the support and you can encourage. Um, and if that child needs that diagnosis, then you absolutely need to do that because there's gonna be limitations on what you can do in your program without it. Um, but definitely watch that vocabulary. That is a component of um privacy violations, HIPAA violations. But also, last time I checked, if you're an early learning, you probably are not a diagnostician, um, which basically means you don't have your doctorate, you're not an MD. Um, I work with a doctorate in occupational therapy. And she basically does those assessments, just like what you talked about. But she can't, like, she's been working in elementary and pre-K programs for over 20 years, but she can't actually give the child a diagnosis, right? Like she can put together all of the work for the doctor. So, you know, that's my my my one little tip. Don't let a parent or a teacher tell you, oh, well, that child's got autism. Because you know what? That child could be hard of hearing. That child could be the youngest of four, and they don't have to talk because everybody knows what they want, right? So exactly.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

Oh my goodness. I don't need to talk.

Kate Woodward Young 13:18

I got three siblings that talk for me. They all talk too much, right? Like all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

They I say that all the time. I have literally, um, most of the time with my nonverbal kids, that's the first thing I do is um as an instructor, I go in and I say, well, let's get their hearing checked, because they may not be hearing correctly. And so some of them, when they get their hearing checked, they instantly turn and they start talking. And it's like, when can you stop talking now? You know? And so the teacher's like, oh my God, they're talking, they're this, and then I'm like, you know, or I'll tell them, like, oh, they got tubes. I'm like, so they can hear you, they're just ignoring you, you know? And so the teachers are like, oh my goodness. So I'm like, let's do some strategies to get them to focus and listen when you're talking. And most of the time it's like, if you work through the problems, or I'm I'm big on differentiation. Not every kid learns the same way anyway. So, regardless of what that child disability is or exceptionality is, we still have to approach all children as if they learn different. I am a visual learner, you know.

Kate Woodward Young 14:32

I mean, all adults, I mean, let's be real, Stephanie. You and I probably learn differently. And it probably also depends on content, right? Like, I, you know, gotta love a Zoom, right? But um, you know, as a result, we've all gotten very like, I have to do it this way or this way, because otherwise we wouldn't have classrooms that have, you know, little desks all lined up, or we wouldn't go to conferences and in the conference, everybody sitting at a round table, um, staring at a screen. Now, let's be realistic, how often is that really going to benefit everybody in that room?

SPEAKER_02 15:03

It's not. And I often go um when I do trainings, oftentimes I kind of point out to teachers, I'm like, have y'all ever been to a teacher training? It's like the first thing I say. And they're like, Yeah, I've been to trainings and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, okay, so let me say this. You're on your phone, you're doing, uh, you're eating snacks, you're fidgeting, you're drawing, you're scribbling. I say, do you know A B C D F G H I T G Y Z? And they're, I'm like, what is the last thing I say? And they're like, how can you get mad at the little babies? How can we be so upset? And we do it.

Kate Woodward Young 15:42

Yeah, my favorite is they don't stand still, and then you you're watching them, you know, and you got you you got the bouncing knee and you got the, like you said, the fidgeters, right? And it's like, you know, and it's really interesting when you meet the parents of those kids. Yeah. You go, okay, that's a learned behavior. How many of you in that household do that, right? And um, and I'm sure you've probably seen it because I know that I have and we look at kids that developmentally they're they're on point, they don't have a diagnosis, but yet they're still like they're not quite like things aren't working in the classroom. And then all of a sudden we have a conversation and we realize that this child has been home with grandma for the last three years. Well, that's not necessarily anything developmentally, but socially they've never done parallel play. Socially, they might have been in front of a tube a big chunk of the day. Even if they weren't, they still only had one caregiver who did everything for them. So they didn't have to talk. They didn't have to, you know, use nice words. They they they never had somebody poke a poke them, you know. So um I and like you said, part of that could be culturally, there could be a faith component. We don't know why that situation maybe changed. Maybe like my favorite are the four-year-olds that come for the first time to your school, and I'm sure you've seen this. I want them to be socialized before kindergarten. So they expect you to do four years of socialization in one year. Yeah. With a child who has had everything handed to him over the course of the last year. And, you know, inevitably we get people who put labels on them who are like, oh, they're difficult children, blah, blah, blah. And it's because we didn't ask enough questions. So, what would be some questions that staff, teachers, owners, directors could ask parents in a nice way to get some of this information, maybe without being too terribly nosy. You got any questions that you think this is a question to ask?

SPEAKER_02 17:48

So I often tell my schools to do an all about me. Um, what has this child day looked like prior to them coming here? That's the first question. Um, and then that's when you kind of find out they were at an in-home daycare or they were with mom. Um, and mom was juggling them and the baby. So they may be a little more needier than some other kids because it was like mom is juggling me and my other sibling. Um then from there I ask them, what are some educational things that they do at home? And they can say, Oh, I I've I've done puzzles or I read books to them, or um, they watched um the iPad and do games on the iPad. And you're like, okay, so they're gonna be probably TV babies. So we know we gotta limit their time or we have to remove the iPad from them and get them more involved in you know, functional play. And so functional play will be more showing them and modeling them. So we kind of get those ideas. Um, I think those are my two main questions to ask because to me that tells me everything I need to know on how to approach that child, how to handle that child. Um, you know, because they say, even like my babies with exceptionalities, oh, they're not lovable. Like all minds love me. They hug me. I say I'm very a given person. I say, if you're the same way, they're gonna love you back, you know. And after that, I just tell them, welcome them in. You know, you have to teach. It's a teaching process. I feel like with um early childhood teachers and therapists and directors and owners, they have gotten this code of we're babysitters, we're babysitters. Um, and we're not, we're educators. You know. Last time I checked, I haven't sat on one yet. Have you? I have not.

Kate Woodward Young 19:52

I have not sat on a baby yet. You know? So I got another question for you. All right. So um before we wrap up this episode, what would be things that because I know that I have met directors that get squeamish about difficult conversations, and we've all met very um gonna go with confident parents, right? Nothing's wrong with my kid. How can you, what would be some advice that you would give a director who who doesn't like conflict, is very nervous about this difficult conversation. Um other than so they they've got the assessment. So I think that was a great first step, right? Make sure you have a real developmental assessment. Make sure you're you've been trained in it, you understand it. But man, you just know in your heart you just are a conflict avoidant, like you're gonna avoid that like the plague. Stephanie, help them understand why they need to have that conversation.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

You need to have that conversation because it will help you in the long run. It will help your teachers, it will not make your team, it will have your teachers less frustrated. You will not have the high turnover rates that most early childhood centers have because they have children with disabilities in their classroom. Um you will also in the long run help that child and that parent come around. Because most parents do come around, because 10 out of 10, they see those behaviors at home. And they are afraid to admit it because some of them it's a lack of I didn't do what I was supposed to do. Um, you have some parents that look at it as, you know, it's my fault that they're that way. And they don't want to admit that, you know. Um, or they think because I didn't sit long enough when I was pregnant with that child, or they have different reasons. And I think sometimes you have to come and approach that parent, even though it's a difficult conversation, you have to approach them with love. I think with most parents, even in difficult conversations, if they realize that you care for their child, like they care for their child, there'll be more um and and there'll be more, they'll listen more. You know, they'll listen to you more and they'll be willing to work with you. And I think once you have that step of them listening, call me.

Kate Woodward Young 22:26

I love that. I can have it, I can help you some more. I think that is perfect. Getting that coaching call with Stephanie would absolutely be beneficial if you're nervous about making those calls. I think the thing that you said that you didn't quite say, but I'm gonna say it for you. You can tell me if I'm wrong, is just like the kids need to know, and just like your staff need to know, the parents need to know, like, and trust you. And they need to know that you care for their child more probably than they do, but they're not gonna say that. Yeah. But you know, when's the last time y'all did the math on how many hours those kids are awake and interacting with your program versus with their parents? Um, when I have teachers who go, Well, they're just not learning this at home, and then I have them do the math on how much time they're spending with their teacher versus how much time they're spending at home, kind of makes that teacher scratch their head a little bit. Yeah. Because a lot of these kids are spending significantly more time at your program awake than they are with their families at home. And so um, if you love them like you say you do, it's the reason why you got into this industry. Absolutely go connect with Stephanie, go follow Stephanie. Um, we've got information about this awesome micro school that she is starting, which if you get a chance, definitely check it out. Connect with her on socials. And if you are very stuck having a difficult conversation, absolutely connect with Stephanie, or you can always uh send us a message at Childcare Conversations on your podcast player of choice. There's a way you can send us a send us mail and we will get back to you and or connect you with Stephanie, and maybe we'll even share a tip in our newsletter. So if you do not already subscribe to the Childcare Conversations newsletter, go to Childcare Conversations.com and join the newsletter. It's down on the bottom. And we can't wait to talk to you in a few days.

Childcare Conversations 24:37

Thanks for tuning in. We love bringing you real talk and fresh insight from the world of early childhood education. Be sure to follow us on social media to stay connected and catch all of the latest episodes. And if you're planning a conference, training, or special event, Kate and Carrie would love to speak to your audience. You can learn more about their keynote sessions and workshops at kateandcary.com. If you learned something today, share the show and leave us a review below. We'll see you next time on Childcare Conversations.