382: Why Co-Regulation Works Better Than Self-Care Buzzwords With Cameile Henry

What does co-regulation really look like when a classroom is chaotic, and everyone is overwhelmed? Kate Woodward Young talks with Camille from Strengthen Hands about self-regulation, emotional development, behavior support, and social-emotional learning in early childhood. They explore how educators can respond in those critical moments with connection and intention instead of simply telling children to “calm down.”

Camille shares practical strategies for supporting overwhelmed educators, creating brave spaces, and using children’s books to open meaningful conversations about identity, emotions, and social-emotional development. If you’re an early childhood educator, director, or teacher leader looking for better ways to support children—and yourself—through big emotions, this conversation is worth a listen.

Connect with our guest:
Website: StrengthenHands.com
Instagram: @StrengthenHands
YouTube: @StrengthenHandsEDU

Check out this episode's sponsor:  tryplayground.com/partnerships/childcareconversations

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Transcript

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Childcare Conversations 0:00

Welcome to Child Care Conversations, the podcast where early childhood leaders like you get real-world strategies, honest talk, and a whole lot of support. Whether you're running one center or many, we're here to help you lead with confidence and clarity. This episode is brought to you by this quarter's sponsor, Playground, the all-in-one child care management software. We're all about managing monkeys and saving you time at your center. With this platform, you can. We're proud to partner with a team that's as committed to your success as we are. Learn more at TriPlayground.com. Now, let's get into today's conversation. One we think you're really going to love.

Kate Woodward Young 0:47

Welcome back, and today's conversation is going to be so much fun. She just doesn't know it yet. So we are so glad to welcome Camille, and we are going to learn about books and oh, just a little bit of everything today. So why don't you go ahead and tell us a little bit about how you got into early childhood and how you found your passion? Because I think that that is just always something that we all need to continue to share with each other.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

So, okay, that's a really good start. I probably have a little bit of a shift of a story because I didn't just fall into um childcare. It was really interesting. I was like determined to be travel and tourism and see the world. And I thought, yeah, you know, children would kind of be following me in the malls and things like that and waving from their strollers. It's one of those. I was like, what is this? And um, it's actually my mom who really said, maybe you should think about, you know, working with children because they seem to really gravitate to you easily.

Kate Woodward Young 1:51

Um, after finishing my Okay, I just have to add, you gotta love a mom who spots it in you, right? And what's even better is that maybe you listened.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Yeah, I well, no, I have to say, no, I will I kind of finished travel and tourism. And then I said, this isn't quite for me. And then I took one course, and one course led to another, to another. Um, 15 years later, working in the field of early childhood education. And as he said, you know, kind of wrote a few children's books and things like that. So it kind of bloomed and blossomed by I think allowing myself to kind of keep on propelling forward or propelling and doing different things. I do a little bit of everything with children and I love it.

Kate Woodward Young 2:38

Right. I mean, um, I think a lot of the entrepreneurs specifically that we have on the podcast, um, and I think it's just by entrepreneur by nature, right? So we just we want to start something new or we get really inspired by somebody. And I bet somebody who's listening might go, you know, I've had some of those children's books on my to-do list. I've maybe even thought about doing something. And they might have heard an episode with Carrie and I um where Carrie's talked about her own children's book stories and what it was like to write them. So hopefully, uh maybe today will be a little bit of an inspiration to you if you are thinking, I've got one in me, or I even have one drafted, or maybe I just have the pictures. So if you, and I will put that plug out there, if you are an illustrator or you think you are a really good illustrator, um, and I'm not talking about you can make me an AI picture. I'm talking about like you're a real illustrator, uh, go to the, the, the contact us and your podcast player of choice and let us know. Because I know Carrie's been desperately looking for some great um, I'm gonna say real illustrators. Now they can be digital illustrators, but I'm not talking about you can put in a prompt. Okay. Sorry about that. Uh us girl. So with that, so tell us a little bit about um we're do you want to talk about books or what do you want to talk about first?

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Well, we can talk a little bit about books because I mean that's probably a good segue into um another deeper conversation. So one of the things when I started writing the books was really how to support children in their emotional and social development. I was thinking, okay, here we are, we have some children that are probably struggling. How can I get their attention? And so I thought using books would be a great way. And it has worked well. But what I've noticed now that I'm going further into the field is that not only are children struggling, but educators are struggling. And those who are supporting educators are struggling. So right now in the field, there's a lot of talk about regulation and self-regulation, and children need to self-regulate. And I'm like, okay, there the week we can have even a deeper discussion. But Kate, that's probably another conversation for another.

Kate Woodward Young 4:49

You know what? I think I think we're bringing you back, right? Yeah. I'm like, I always love that. I'm like going, so what did we used to call it? Because, you know, like I feel like, you know, uh, and you gotta love a buzzword, right? Or a buzz phrase, right? Because they they definitely are cyclical. And um, you know, whether you call it self-help or that you call it, you know, um self-care. Yeah, it's all the same thing. Right. And now when that's regul regulating, and I'm like, maybe to make regulation is what I do with my manage their work.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

Yeah, like manage their behavior. They need to manage, right? Um, when I first started in the field, that was the common word. But then I'm thinking to myself, okay, yeah, that that's part of a deeper conversation in terms of co-regulation. And if we're thinking about ourselves being able to support children within that, I sometimes now need to take a little bit of a step further back in the sense that how are directors and supervisors helping educators to be able to help children in that co-regulation field? Um, I think so many times when we think about what early childhood educators are doing, you know, they're they're creating curriculum, helping children with conflict resolution, helping them with critical thinking skills, all the things, and as well as supporting families. I also think directors and supervisors need to be in spaces of how can we help them, but also in a space of helping themselves, right? Um, you mentioned this the idea of self-care. Self-care is another, I should I say it is almost like a buzzword. And I don't I don't want people on the, you know, getting back to what does she mean?

Kate Woodward Young 6:27

Oh, I do. I want to piss people off because then they respond. Um But I mean, yeah, like self, self-care, self-help. I mean, what were we doing before the buzzwords? What, you know, were people really not doing that? I mean, I think we were, but I think what's really great though is it's now something we talk about. Um and I think that's important, whether you're in your your 20s, your 30s, your 40s, your 50s, whether it's hormonal, whether it's postpartum depression, whether it's perimenopause. I mean, these are all mental health. Um, and and you know, and again, uh that that stigma of we're gonna talk about mental health, right? Like, well, I'm stressed. Well, okay, aren't we all? Um so we have to figure out how to have that dialogue in a way that's not um, I'm gonna go with offensive, right? Or that doesn't, because after a while, if you keep hearing the same buzzwords, you kind of tune it out, right? Like right now, somebody talks to me about, you know, co-regulating or regulating or self-care. I just start to tune it out because I'm like, I don't want to take another hot bath with magnesium.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Like that's and but I'm not like those things are important, right? And they are very important to take time for yourself. You you need to to fill up your cup. And I really do, I'm a strong advocate of that. Um, to find time to do that. But sometimes when you're in moments where you're supporting children's needs, I can't just say, you know what, sorry, I need to go take a hot or you know, I'm gonna go for a walk, I'll be back in 25 minutes. It's actually the idea of how can I regulate and even be mindful of what's happening for me in the moment as I'm also supporting the child. And I think that sometimes what's missing is that we forget about that.

Kate Woodward Young 8:15

Um the right now.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Yes.

unknown 8:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

So it is a matter of, you know, as I'm approaching the child, can I move in a little bit slower? Um, am I am I aware of my surroundings? Am I conscious of how my tone is and and be mindful, is that child's behavior triggering me? Um, I have a so I wait, I have a question.

Kate Woodward Young 8:38

So as you're saying that, one of the things that pops into my head are those micro decisions. You know, how to make a better decision, but we're not talking about making better big decisions. Right. In this situation, we're talking about those micro decisions. Like you said, can I move in a little slower? Yes. And I think that, I mean, this might be a great episode for everybody to bookmark, share with a friend, because I think it's really important that we're not talking about self-regulating or co-regulating on this massive scale. We're not even talking about it on, you know, what you're doing on a Friday night, right? We're talking about that, what you're doing right now in a teeny tiny little level. Oh, I love that. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

And it is really the idea of what are you doing in everyday moments? And the it's a small moments. It's the it is really the small moments that have a big impact. And I think sometimes we all think, oh, okay, I need to have this research book and I need to have this and that. And it's like, no, it's not. And and and one of the things I also want to mention, it's not that we're trying to strive for perfection. And I'm also not saying that as an educator, supervisor, director, oh, I always need to be calm. So I'm walking in with this kind of like hum and you know, breathing. And like, listen, listen, we're real.

Kate Woodward Young 9:59

Because there's the real, there's the realism, right? Like, yeah, you might be going in.

unknown 10:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Okay. Like, yeah, I'm there are times. Um if I'm watching, I I'm here in Canada, so I'm a Blue Jays fan and a Raptors fan and sports fan for those. And yes, I do just chime in on the times when they're in competition. So I'll pull out my Raptors t-shirt when they're in the playoffs. Yes, I do. I'm okay with that. But one of the things is when I'm watching a really good game, I'm excited, right? So I'm screaming, I'm jumping, I'm like, yeah. And then also, if I think the coach is not making a good call or the ref made a bad call, you're gonna hear me. What kind of call is that? You're gonna hear me, right? So I'm not saying that you need to be in this state of um a constant state of calm and equilibrium. But the the idea is that even in moments when children are upset, it's okay for them to be upset. It's okay for me to be a little ticked off that wow, you know what? I just changed the diaper and here's another diaper and another diaper, and I'm changing about 15 diapers a day. You can be a little annoyed about that. That's okay. But annoyance doesn't mean that I I have to explode. Annoyance doesn't mean that I can't still be comforting to that child and in in that moment, I might not be as overt about it, right? I'm not probably slam dunking it, but at the same time, I can be compassionate to myself in the moment and letting myself know that I'm informed and empowered and saying that's okay. And I think for directors and supervisors, if they can create space for that, if they can create space.

Kate Woodward Young 11:45

So hold on a minute. So, because that's that's another one of those buzzword phrases that I'm like, what do you mean by that? Because when we say give people space, again, that's a fairly new term or phrase. What does that mean to you? When you're telling a director, give space for that, help the help that director who is in her 50s or 60s, who's going, what? Everybody says that. What does that mean? I'm gonna ask you, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 12:13

What does that mean to you? Right. So I'm gonna give you an example. I was working in the toddler room and toddler room winter season, welcome here to Canada. And so um, the first or it's I think the first week of snowfall. And I don't know, those who work with toddlers, I'm just gonna give you a little bit of a preface as background. Toddlers can do almost like whatever, right? Okay. And so here I am taking these five toddlers to go transition to get ready to go outside. One child was a little bit cleague because they were having a little bit of a challenging morning. I should say, just a little bit in terms of separation anxiety. It happens. They're sitting in my lap. I have another one that I'm trying to zip up their coat because they did a fantastic job getting their snowsuit on, like, hello. So I'm trying to keep you going. I got two over there dancing. I don't know what they're doing. And the one behind me is starting to think that they're so excited, they're taking their boots and they throw it in the air. So they take their boots, it throws in the air, and it lands not on, I know, not on, but right in front of the child that was dancing. They get scared, they start to cry. So what I did was this is early on in my career, I'm gonna I'm admitting that. I use my voice to be louder than the children. So I'm like, you need to stop. Hey, hey! My supervisor here is inside of the office because this is only a half wall. So, of course, everybody probably in the whole child child care center was hearing me. So there's judgment that's coming on me because everybody's like, what's going on with Camille? Right? All this kind of stuff is going on at the same time, which is of course increasingly. So, this is in terms of that regulation piece, I was not regulated. I was like, listen, I'm gonna take two kids under my arm. If I have to, one on my back, another on my head, and we're getting out of here. I just, you know, you get to that point. It's interesting. When my supervisor said was just there, and all I heard was, the more we get together, together, together, and she came in. Of course, that jolts me, but it also what's great is it also made all the other all the children pause. So she comes in the space and she's just singing and she looks at me, the more we get together, and I'm like, the happier we'll be. Now what I would have finished that sentence. But it was nice because in that moment, what she exemplified, she didn't, she didn't um number one, belittle me, Camille, you know, what's going on here? Why is it so loud? But she actually gave me an example, she modeled it, she joined me in it, and then at the end, there was nothing more that needed to be said. Yes, we all got the children outside, we had a great time. Because as she's leaving, there's the little bit of a background. Okay, hang on.

Kate Woodward Young 15:05

So, so so she heard the chaos. Yes, she came in in a calming tone and helped you? Yes. Wow. So, okay, so if you're listening, I want you to go back and listen to that same sentence because I think that's the key piece. It is not about whether or not she modeled, because she did, right? So it's not about she modeled, it's not that she even told you what she should have done. It's that she also was present. So she was present enough to hear the chaos and not make a judgment. She was present enough to come in and regulate it herself before she came in. Now, I'm sure she probably did not identify it that way 15 years ago, right? Like there wasn't a conscious, I'm going to calm myself down, right? But she just had that demeanor, right? There was something about her. Now, I was never that director. You would have not heard me singing. Um, I'm just saying, but I probably would have come in and done something like, hey, let me see everybody's shoes. Like, right, like that, that disruptor of the chaos, right? So, like, if I asked to see everybody's shoes and the one that threw the boot has to go get his shoes, he's now going, oops, this kate wants to see my shoes. I gotta go get my shoes, right? So, because I was expecting you to tell me that there was a toddler stripping behind you, and because that's usually like um toddler rooms are not my thing. Like, um, that's how I learned that I had to actually onboard people. I couldn't just go, oh, look, you pass the background check into the toddler room. Um, because they would leave at lunch and then I'd be back in the toddler room and I'd be miserable again. So um, yeah, so I love the fact that she stayed and supported and she didn't just tell you what to do, because so many times as administrators, as leaders, I think we find ourselves we have to come in and make this a teachable moment, even for the educator. And the educator doesn't need a teachable moment, the educator needs you to help them get those damn boots on so they can get outside. Because, like, we're 15 minutes into recess and we still don't have boots on.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

Right. And I I appreciate that, Kate, because that is the idea when we're thinking about regulating children's behavior or supporting as a co-regulator. The thing is, even for myself as an adult, I need that. So it's the matter of can you connect with me first before you start to tell me what I need to do or what I didn't do. And like I I do not have the capacity in that moment to hear anything else other than can you just support me and help me for a sec? And I think being able to do that, so even when you were saying come in and say, Oh, where are the shoes? I was like, You're just sitting there going, thank you. And then if you want to talk to me about it later, I'm good. But I just need to get through this moment. And I am thinking, if we are saying that we want to create spaces, or like you said, when you said create the space, it's the idea that you know it used to be the the word was safe space, and I'm not one that thinks that I can create this safe space because I don't know your history, I don't know fully your story, I don't know your trauma, I don't know that. But what I can do is create brave space so that maybe if I'm comfortable and make you comfortable with disclosure, if we're in a relationship together, like accountability can happen in the sense that I need to be accountable to what was going on. That's fine in the situation with the toddlers, right? But at the same time, I can be accountable and just do, I can be compliant, but accountability within a relationship, oh, then that's investment because now I'm invested to be there. I I I see us as a we, not a you and a me, but we're together in this. And so then now I'm more invested to want to be here to do it for the long run.

Kate Woodward Young 19:04

Wow, okay. I feel like that could be its own podcast, but if we're not careful, we're gonna be on here for like an entire episode and never get to books. So talk to me a little bit about the books, and then I know you've got a really cool place that you're going to in November, and I think that's just awesome. And I'd love to hear more about that. So before we get to where you're going in November, talk to me about the books and how the books help with this with the children.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

And that's the that's the point where the books are really that idea to help to support children, their social and emotional development. Let's have conversations about some things sometimes that we're a little bit touchy to talk about. So there's a book I have about melanin in our skin, and that's um, you know, the melanin in me, and talking about skin tones and and what that means. ABCs of affirmations is affirmations that we can simply say, but then it creates the opportunity for bigger and broader stories. Um, it's really about looking at situations that are chill happening to children in their everyday and using different animals, different characters to really bring that home so children can have the conversation. It's interesting because as much as we talk about this in the early childhood educational realm, what's happening is I'm also out in the social work realm. So really talking to social workers about how they can support children through the mediums of growth and create that opportunity for conversation. It's almost like an invitation. We're opening the door for the conversation to happen so children can learn more about themselves as well as the communities in which they live in.

Kate Woodward Young 20:37

What's so interesting is that we talk a lot about that topic, right? And again, when we talk about buzzwords, right? But a lot of times I think that families and parents miss it, or as educators, we forget that a parent are the first educator. And that although kids probably do spend more waking hours with their early learning and their teachers and right, and in those settings, but we need to make sure that we've got those resources for the parents and that as educators, we if a child really likes a book or resonates or is having an issue, make that referral. I mean, if you are somebody who's already earned your CDA or you've ever had to create a resource guide with books, do you actually use it? I'm gonna challenge you that if you've put books on a list for some class or for some credential, are you actually referring those books out to parents? Are these books that you're like every parent needs Harold and the Purple Crayon? Are you like every parent needs good night, good night moon, right? Like, are there things Kissing Hand was a book that I referred to everybody, right? And Rainbow Fish, right? Like I thought, like if I if I had thought about it at the time, I would have had stacks of those in my my program just to get the parents all the time. And I think it's really important that if there is something you're passionate about. About to find those resources to give to the parents. And maybe that is what separates you from the other programs in your community is that you have that vested interest in parents. And that is my tee up for you to tell me about this awesome thing you're doing in November.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Yeah. So we're actually invited to the Head Start program where we're going to be in San Antonio, Texas in November. There's a family life conference. And so that gives us the opportunity to connect with parents as well as educators and really showcase what we're providing, really being there as a support. So when in November? It's actually November 8th to November 11th in San Antonio, Texas. It's the Head Start Family Life Conference. All right.

Kate Woodward Young 22:49

Well, as somebody who lives in Texas, and I live an hour from San Antonio, we are definitely going to have to figure out how to connect, or maybe we need to have you come to Austin on the 7th. So the Texas Association for Um Early Childhood has their annual conference in Austin, Texas, the five days before the four days before that. So yeah, so the Thursday, well, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. So the three days before that. So the Thursday, Friday, Saturday. So maybe we'll have to have you come up to Austin and come come talk to some folks. Maybe we'll do a book signing. We have a booth there. So maybe child care conversations will have you come and bring some books and do a book signing. So yeah, we'll definitely chat about that. I I knew the event was happening in November. I just didn't actually ask you where. So even better. So um, so folks who are listening, um, it's really interesting because Austin, Texas, which is where uh Carrie and I are based out of, is not the number one listening um area for us, which we always crack up about. So we actually have more folks who listen to us in Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio than those who live listen to us from the Austin area. So if you are listening from the San Antonio area, please, please, please make sure that you um put on your schedule to maybe go check out the parent, family, and life component at National. Is it the National Head Start or Texas? National Head Start. National Head Start that's gonna have their big conference in November in San Antonio. Uh in our show notes, you can get all of the links to Camille's books. Uh, you can learn more about Camille. And, you know, I have this feeling Camille's gonna be on for a second episode. Um, I I have this feeling there might be a little more soap boxes that we need to tip up and actually uh get on and make sure that we are giving those resources to the administrators. So, administrators, directors, as you've been listening to this, if you want to know more and you want more resources like this for your teachers, uh make sure that you let us know. So, on every podcast player, there is a way to contact the show. Uh, if you send that over to us, we would be happy to provide additional resources. And if you don't already subscribe to the newsletter, we've got some resources in this week's newsletter specifically related to this episode. And if you want to see them, you have to get the newsletter. They're not in the show notes. So we can't wait to have another conversation, and we will see y'all in a few days.

Childcare Conversations 25:22

Thanks for tuning in. We love bringing you real talk and fresh insight from the world of early childhood education. Be sure to follow us on social media to stay connected and catch all of the latest episodes. And if you're planning a conference, training, or special event, Kate and Carrie would love to speak to your audience. You can learn more about their keynote sessions and workshops at kateandcary.com. If you learned something today, share the show and leave us a review below. We'll see you next time on Child Care Conversations.