265: The Best Ways to Combine Play and Literacy for Early Learners with Melissa McCall

In this episode of Child Care Conversations, you’ll meet Melissa McCall from North Carolina, who shares her journey blending play and literacy in early childhood education. Melissa opens up about her own daughter’s struggles with early reading skills during the pandemic and how that inspired her to champion play-based, research-backed learning. 

You’ll pick up practical tips for teachers and parents, learn why playful activities build strong literacy foundations, and discover resources to support your little learners. It’s a warm, insightful chat that’ll leave you feeling inspired and ready to try something new!

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Transcript

Marie 00:00:03  Welcome to Child Care Conversations, the podcast where early childhood leaders like you get real world strategies, honest talk, and a whole lot of support. Whether you're running one center or many. We're here to help you lead with confidence and clarity. This episode is brought to you by our summer partner Child Care Business Growth, your go to solution for filling spots, increasing revenue, and scaling your child care business without the burnout. We're proud to partner with the team that's as committed to your success as we are. Learn more at Child Care Business Growth. Now let's get into today's conversation. One we think you're really going to love.

Carrie 00:00:49  Hey, guys. Okay. Today's guest is someone from a state we've never had on the podcast before, but it's one that's near and dear to my heart since my family has and continues to live in this state, and they've lived there for, I don't know, 300 years. so this is Melissa McCall from North Carolina, and she's here to talk to us a little bit about supporting our teachers in doing what matches the research about two things that people are like.

Carrie 00:01:22  Those don't go together. Play and literacy. How do those go together? So no, but I'm excited.

Kate 00:01:29  But I think you just gave us a new challenge, Kerry. I think we now need to find a guest from every state.

Carrie 00:01:35  Okay? Of all of the countries that have states or just the United States, because let's.

Kate 00:01:40  Start with the United States and go from there.

Carrie 00:01:43  Okay?

Kate 00:01:44  Okay.

Carrie 00:01:45  And then we've got the province. I think we also have to do the provinces of Canada at the same time.

Kate 00:01:50  Oh, absolutely.

Carrie 00:01:52  Absolutely.

Kate 00:01:54  Sorry. That was such a squirrel. I am sorry, Melissa. You had to see that. But it is what it is. So I'm excited about this topic, Melissa. Tell us a little bit about how this became kind of a joint component for you, like how you put the two pieces together. And then I'd love to hear more about what you do. Sure.

Melissa 00:02:14  Thanks so much for having me. So, yes, moving little minds at the name of my business.

Melissa 00:02:20  And it's really about taking what research has shown, which we know is play. Right? Children learn through play. But then something near and dear to my heart, which is literacy and teaching children to read. So this all began. My daughter, she is now 11. But when Covid hit, she was a kindergartner and we started to when she was in preschool, we would do all sorts of letters and sounds and all types of things, and she could rock it out. But I always knew I was a teacher master's in special ed. I knew something was wrong, but it didn't. I was not trained properly with how to teach children how to read. and so I could not figure it out. And it took several years. Well, actually, it took till Covid hit. And my son is with me. He's in preschool. We're doing all sorts of preschool things. She's on her little computer during virtual learning. She comes over to join us. She can't segment syllables. And I'm like, here's my my three and a half year old clap in a way.

Melissa 00:03:23  She can't rhyme. She's three fourths the way through kindergarten. And so she went to a wonderful preschool. She was rocking and rolling. But that really kind of set a fire under me to say, what is the issue? Why can't she do these things? Our preschool teachers are aware of the skills that children can do early on. And are we practicing those skills? So that's kind of after several years of this journey, I have ended here. and absolutely love it. So I'm dedicated to just educating teachers a little bit more on.

Kate 00:03:55  I wouldn't I wouldn't say you ended there. I think you are just now beginning I think the beginning pad.

Melissa 00:04:02  So. Absolutely.

Kate 00:04:03  Absolutely.

Carrie 00:04:04  So I remember being that early learner. And I remember when rhyming was introduced and at my school, they introduced both rhyming and alliteration at the same time. I'm going to say don't do that. Because I was very confused whether Robin runs a rough and ready route was rhyming or cats and SATs.

Melissa 00:04:30  Absolutely. And so that's one of the things that we really dive into is the progression of skills.

Melissa 00:04:37  And when you are two years old, you can actually start clapping to the beat. And that is phonological awareness. And that has a purpose. And if we get good at that skill, then that builds and builds and builds. So then we're sending children to kindergarten with a full bucket and they can grow. is this through drill? No, it's just through a little bit more intentionality.

Kate 00:05:00  But it's still through play And and I think that's what's really key here is, you know, you definitely have all different types of thought, when it comes to different types of curriculum, what does school readiness look like? And there's the, the the folks who are on the, on the extreme each side. Right.

Melissa 00:05:21  Like completely.

Kate 00:05:23  For lack a better term, drill and kill. Right. Like, it's all letter recognition. And then there's the folks on the, you know, children's work is play. And I would say that probably the majority of the folks carry that we've met or somewhere in between. Right.

Kate 00:05:41  Like, they got a little bit of this and a little bit of that. And I think what's great is that you're going and let's look at the research and let's talk about it. Now I'm just curious, do you do workshops and trainings and provide materials for parents? You brought up Covid as an example, and I feel like sometimes, that might be the disconnect for a lot of teachers is that parent communication?

Melissa 00:06:06  Absolutely. So I at my before I left and started moving little minds on my own, I was doing both. I was in a school and we would do parent workshops, there as well. But what honestly, what I found was if it wasn't in a convenient time, they weren't going to show up. I mean, that's just the reality of it. The one that they showed up to most would be getting ready for kindergarten. What my mission is. We could do so much very early on. I do have some products that are dedicated to parents and simple, engaging things that you can do every single day, like a tear off calendar.

Melissa 00:06:43  And then I also provide the parents with newsletters. So providing the director, you download this newsletter and you send it to your parents because it starts with educating the parents. And and quite honestly, they just don't know what they don't know. Right. And so if we can empower them That can make all the difference as well.

Carrie 00:07:05  And we make sure that the teachers know before we send it to the parents so that when the parent comes in. The teachers are like, oh, I didn't know that. And then the parents are going. Why am I sending this child to this teacher when they don't know what I know? Even though they got the information from the director.

Melissa 00:07:23  And that would be our newsletters would go to the teachers too, and they would come by and say like, oh my goodness, I, I'm learning from this stuff too. Because a lot of the preschools that I'm in around Charlotte are private, faith based preschools, and they might not get professional development, or they might not have learned some of the stuff because a lot of them are parent parents.

Melissa 00:07:49  That turned into the teachers. So.

Kate 00:07:50  Well, I mean.

Carrie 00:07:52  I was just going to say, I know of a couple of kids off the top of my head who went to programs where the teachers were amazing at running a classroom and helped the kids with socialization, but they did not know any of the stuff like the science behind of, you know, learning how to sound out words or even how to hold a pencil correctly. Like, they didn't know any of that kind of stuff. And so the kids went to kindergarten, and the kindergarten teachers had to reteach so much. That shouldn't have been.

Kate 00:08:31  One of the things that I love, that you said, Melissa, is that we can start so young. And that's where we often hear those phrases, foundation skills. And even Carrie kind of alluded to sometimes, kids may learn it, but they may not master it. Or if they if they're not using it, they're losing it. And so I think that, your concept is great for early childhood learners.

Kate 00:08:59  for the educators, for the parents and helping to bridge that. What we starting to at to we should keep going because we've all seen that little kid that, you know, goes viral because they're bopping to the music because they've got it. but we don't ever know where that kid ends up from an academic standpoint, because if somebody sat them in a chair at age four and said, here's your ditto, and here's your pencil, now you need to sound out words. there's a disconnect with that. And sometimes it's because it's what the parents think they want. they they've been, persuaded. Yeah. You know, sometimes coming up with the with a tactful phrase is not always the easiest thing to do in the morning, but, you know, they've been persuaded or somehow they've seen on television or in media that this is this is how they're going to prepare their child for a better education. And there's not enough of us that are screaming. It starts with the play. It starts with the play. So absolutely.

Carrie 00:10:06  So if somebody.

Kate 00:10:07  Is listening to this episode and they want to know more, what might be a tip you might give a toddler teacher, a preschool teacher, and maybe even a parent on, how to incorporate that play piece into their classroom.

Melissa 00:10:23  So first, it really.

Kate 00:10:25  Play in literacy. Let me change that. They probably figured out the play and how to make that connection.

Melissa 00:10:30  Absolutely. So first it comes down to just, I think starting to understand what our children are actually capable of doing. I always say children are capable of amazing things if we just try it. So when I go into so I teach literacy focused classes here in Charlotte as well. So I go into schools around Charlotte and in the twos classroom. So one thing we do is we might be reading a story about. And so we start by sharing our favorite cake. Well that's probably something that a teacher is doing anyway, right? We we want to ask children. Oh, I like cookies. What's your favorite dessert? And one of the easiest things you could do is just clap that sentence.

Melissa 00:11:14  I like cookies. That's it. So you are just literally starting to get children to understand that a word has a beat and a and a part. And so something as easy as that from there. we might have a puppet and we're going to say, oh, I'm so hungry. Can I have the cook? E and the child with the cookie is coming up and feeding the puppet. They don't even realize, but I have now, I have segmented a syllable and they blended it and put it back together. So just being very intentional, with alphabetic knowledge in we instead of a pencil and paper, we're using ribbon sticks. And so now we're playing games where I'm in the front making a giant a and you're guessing what did I just form. And then we're forming the A together. So it first just comes down to I think knowing what children can do and then making a plan. So I always say it takes intentionality, which can be harder for parents, right. Because they don't always necessarily know what their children can do.

Melissa 00:12:26  Right? They're told, here's a workbook. Your kid's going to write some letters this week and they're going to know all the things.

Kate 00:12:32  Well, that's I mean, that's what they see at Sam's Club or at Costco. Right? Are those two inch, you know, things for your kids to do this summer or, you know, that kind of activity? And, I think what's really kind of the, the downfall for a lot of those things is there's not the if your child can't do this, go back and learn those basics. And.

Carrie 00:12:56  You know, and I mean, one of the things that you were just talking about, Melissa, is starting with gross motor to, to do those letter formations, large muscles to small muscles, which is one of those foundational things in your first child development class, right? They taught you the five rules of child development, one of which is that development starts with large muscles and goes to small muscles. Right? You have control over your trapezius way before you have control over the teeny tiny muscles in your fingers.

Carrie 00:13:26  And so if they can do it using their whole arm, they can do that way earlier than they can write an A with a pencil. If they can write an A with their whole body.

Melissa 00:13:39  That mapping the brain.

Carrie 00:13:41  Yeah. And it creates that, oh, this is the shape that I need to remember. And we can't do that in a workbook that you can pick up at, you know, a Dollar General or a Costco. Right.

Melissa 00:13:56  There's a there's a great study, out of MIT, that's about how writing letters in free form is activating the reading parts of your brain. So like getting a child to write the letter on a in sand is activating the brain more than just simply how much is going on right now. While I'm tracing nothing's happening in my brain, I'm literally just going on. So, it's interesting.

Carrie 00:14:24  I wish everybody knew that because the number of bedrooms that I go into that are threes, fours, fives, classrooms, and they have what we would call a ditto because of how old we are.

Carrie 00:14:35  A worksheet that they've put inside of page protector. And they're giving those kids a dry erase marker. And that is one of their okay, I've finished eating and we're waiting for everybody to get ready for washing hands and going to to sleep. And the kids are just laying on their bellies doing worksheets. it hurts my head every time I see it, especially when they're like, we're a five star program. I'm like, how are you a five star program when you're doing that? What does your literacy work?

Melissa 00:15:08  Yeah. And it it's hard because it does take a mind a mind set shift, I think. I think to really understand the science behind everything. And so that's kind of my mission is like, this is what science shows and this is how the brain works and how we can merge.

Kate 00:15:27  Well, I think what's great is you brought up a statement early on that I heard, which was the concept of professional development. And, you know, some folks have heard Carrie and I talk about it.

Kate 00:15:39  I'm not sure we've talked about it a whole lot, even on our episodes. But we are all about making and helping teachers view themselves as the professionals they are. it's a lot can be.

Carrie 00:15:53  Not all of them are the professionals that they can be.

Kate 00:15:57  They can be. And it starts with professional development, not staff training. And sometimes they don't know. Kind of like what you just said about the parents. They don't know what they don't know. And I think we have teachers in that same component. And I love the fact that you bring this to the entire center, to every age level, to the director, to the teacher, and then they get to share those resources with the parents. And I think that's the missing. That's the disconnect for a lot of professional development that we traditionally see. That is for the classroom educator that sometimes we forget that there has to be that connection not only at the director level. Right. So the director should have a clue on what you're learning at a conference or at a training.

Kate 00:16:45  But also how do we share using the professional language of our industry, citing research studies for the parents. And I think that the fact that you give them all those tools is just a great resource because, the more we can sound like professionals that have That are highly educated, that are the experts in the field. The father that's going to take everything you've just shared into the mind of a parent, because now they have a perception of, you're not just a preschool teacher, you are an early learning leader. You are an early learning professional.

Carrie 00:17:29  And I just want to say, how does somebody who doesn't live in Charlotte, North Carolina, get your information, get you support their staff, the and their parents? How how can they access your information?

Melissa 00:17:42  That's a great question. And I do have online courses. So I do in-person trainings, live virtual trainings. And I have two courses out, one geared towards the littles. So it's called Littles and Literacy. And then one called Alphabet Academy, which is exactly what research shows for how to teach the alphabet.

Melissa 00:18:02  And back to what you were saying, Kate, with the training versus the Development. I always I love this point because it starts with a mindset shift, right? We are adults and we can pretend that we are going to do what you tell us we have to do, and we probably aren't going to do it. But if we can change your mindset and I start with every single training with the science of reading, which a lot of preschool teachers are like, what are you talking about? I teach three year olds. Why does this matter? But it matters because 70% of fourth graders in the US right now are not proficient in reading. And that is the latest national data. And I bring this up to say that it starts with the foundation. So I talk about how a child learns to read and then take it back further and further, and what happens in the brain. And from birth to three now we are at this rapid growth and development, and what we do now affects all the things later.

Melissa 00:19:09  And so trying to get them to open their mind to the fact that this stuff really does matter. and we I 100% believe we preschool teachers can literally change the future of America because I have seen it. I've taught at preschools where they have public preschool, and I was the kindergarten teacher, and all those children that came in were rock stars. I could take my class so much further, even than the little private school kids who went to their little church preschool. These were low income children who got public preschool, and they were well beyond this other side. So that's just my little soapbox of why we matter so much.

Kate 00:19:51  Absolutely. Sometimes it's not necessarily the environment, it's who the educators are and the mindset those educators are coming to the table with. I love that, and we are definitely going to make sure in today's show notes that we have links to, Melissa's programs. Melissa's courses? I don't know, I'm guessing that somewhere there's probably a book in there stewing somewhere. So maybe we'll we'll we'll have a book up sometime, for Melissa as well.

Kate 00:20:21  but in the meantime, go listen to today's episode. And if you think that this is something that another teacher or another director needs to hear, you want to try to figure out how to, maybe even bring Melissa in to do some professional development at your state level. At your program level. please reach out to Melissa. We would love to see more of these play literacy connections being being happening, happening across the country. And with that career. Melissa, do you guys have anything else you'd like to say?

Melissa 00:20:55  Just thanks for having me. Keep playing and learning.

Kate 00:20:59  Absolutely.

Carrie 00:21:00  So if you learned something from this show, share it with somebody else who needs to know. And if you think that you have something to share with other people listening to the podcast. Definitely go over to Child care conversations with Kate and Kerry and sign up. Be our next guest. Maybe you can bring some inspiration to people like Melissa has brought to us today, and we will talk to you next week.

Marie 00:21:28  Thanks for tuning in.

Marie 00:21:29  We love bringing you real talk and fresh insight from the world of early childhood education. Be sure to follow us on social media to stay connected and catch all of the latest episodes. And if you're planning a conference, training, or special event. Kate and Carrie would love to speak to your audience. You can learn more about their keynote sessions and workshops at Kate and Caricom. If you learned something today, share the show and leave us a review below. We'll see you next time on Child Care Conversations.