Carrie Casey (00:05)
Okay, do you ever feel like you and the other people in your admin team are speaking different languages and speaking across each other? Like you asked them to do something and you think it's very clear what you've asked and they give you back something totally different. So maybe you said, ⁓ I would like you to keep track of how many people
email or reach out through social media over the next two weeks. And what they heard was siagile tangine and you're like, that is not the same thing. Because you're speaking in different languages. And that's what we're going to try to do today is try to help you realize that sometimes what you are asking for or what you are hearing, depending on what side of the conversation you are on,
is not coming through properly. And so how do we recognize when that's happening and how do we fix it?
Kate Woodward Young (01:11)
All right, so in case you didn't know and you're fairly new to our podcast, Carrie owned four centers and at one point in time, I was one of her directors. So Carrie is gonna wear the owner hat today or she's gonna try. She might sneak over. Okay, because she also has been a director in public school settings and in other situations and I have been regional managers of multi-site. So we're gonna try really hard.
Carrie Casey (01:25)
Wait, hang on, let me go get it.
you
Kate Woodward Young (01:40)
for Carrie to wear the owner hat, say hi owner Carrie. And I'm gonna try to be director Kate. instead of talking about whether or not one hair is curly and one hair is straight, ⁓ today I'm gonna be director Kate and Carrie is gonna be owner Carrie. And we are going to attempt to have a conversation and share with you the things that.
Carrie Casey (01:44)
Hi owner, Carrie. ⁓
Kate Woodward Young (02:06)
Even we struggled with, now you have to remember, even though Carrie and our cousins and we now have been in business for 25 years, we didn't grow up together. So we weren't necessarily like, we didn't necessarily have each other's zone of genius really well at the time I worked for Carrie because.
Carrie Casey (02:11)
Okay.
Cause that
was a long time ago. That was like a whole child ago. ⁓ that. Yeah. So it's been a while. ⁓ but you know, what an owner needs and what a director needs can be very contradictory or, or feel contradictory. And
Kate Woodward Young (02:31)
It was a couple decades, yes. So thanks, Kerry. ⁓
Carrie Casey (02:49)
the fact that maybe one of you is a morning person and one of you is a nighttime person. So an owl and a lark working together, which in a lot of ways is great, because then you have somebody whose brain is working when the parents drop off and another person whose brain is working really hard when parents pick up. But
Kate Woodward Young (03:10)
But if you message me and I'm done at five and you're just getting your excitement going, how does that work? I expected to respond to you with every email that you send me or every text message you send me or pager?
Carrie Casey (03:26)
I mean, that is
part of this negotiation part of this whole clarifying that we have to do. And Kate has this weird thing where she keeps her email open all the time. And so she expects people to respond to email quickly. And I check email once or twice a day because I have a brain that if there is something in my email inbox, I have to read it.
And if I do that multiple times a day, I lose hours and hours and hours of the day. And I answer almost all phone calls and Kate will send a lot of phone calls to voicemail so that she can deal with it when it works for her. Now I'm not as bad as my mother who will answer every phone call, even if she's in a negotiation for a multi-million dollar deal, she will answer her phone call. So in those meetings that I've been in with her,
I take her phone away and I put it to silent during the meeting. But we've got, you know, communication apps like Slack or ⁓ Basecamp or something like that. We've got phone, we've got text, we've got email. Who likes which methods of communication? And then maybe you've got somebody who only wants to talk face to face and they want to be breathing your air.
when they talk to you. So not even a Zoom call will work. They want to be breathing the same air. Well, that's a communication issue. Because we have to be able to communicate when we're not in the same building. We have to be able to communicate at different times of the day, and we have to have boundaries. So it's a lot.
Kate Woodward Young (05:11)
It is. And so those folks who like to talk to you once or twice a day, or they know that they're going to see you may also show up with a list where you thought it was going to be a short meeting, but now they have a list of 14 things that they need to check with you on for whatever reason. It could be they were thinking of you, they actually have a real question, but they wanted to share with you. So what you might've thought was a five minute call ends up as a 30 or 40 minute call. So,
We're going to talk hopefully a little bit about if an owner says this, what a director might hear or think. And then if we get a chance, we might also talk about how to set those boundaries when it comes to how to communicate and when to communicate. Just know that it is okay, but you got to have the dialogue. So as a director, don't be resentful if your owner
comes up with ideas and wants to send you a bunch of emails or text messages at a certain time, as long as you have a conversation, and it could be a difficult conversation depending on your comfort level, and you set the boundaries and you just let them know, if it's not coming from a parent between 5 p.m. and 8 p.m., I'm not gonna answer it, and I will answer emails to you in the morning when I am at work before the staff come in, so maybe,
I'm an early bird and I show up at the office at seven. And so from seven to eight, I'm going to respond to all of the owner emails they sent the night before. Again, can be an easy conversation, but you have to have it because neither one of us have telepathy in our language.
Carrie Casey (06:54)
Right. And but
here's the thing is that people go, well, it's just common sense. I don't I told you you work from this hour to this hour. That means I don't expect you to be responding to emails after hours. Well, you think it's common sense, but they think it's common sense that if my boss sends me a communication, I need to respond. So both of those are common sense, but they contradict each other. So you you have to actually talk about it.
so.
Kate Woodward Young (07:25)
So let's start
with some common language components that you know as a director that either you said ⁓ or we've had other people say ⁓ related to, you know, whatever.
Carrie Casey (07:28)
Okay.
As a director or as an owner?
Kate Woodward Young (07:43)
As a note, you're wearing your owner hat.
Carrie Casey (07:45)
I know, but you said as a director. Okay, so some owner things I have said or I have heard are, well, why do I have to give presents? I hired them to do a job, they accepted the job, that is the recognition. I give you a paycheck every month, that is the recognition. Why do we have to have?
Kate Woodward Young (07:48)
⁓ sorry.
Carrie Casey (08:12)
staff appreciation days and why do I have to give a present on their anniversary or their birthday or my appreciation is a paycheck.
How does that come across to the director when the owner says that?
Kate Woodward Young (08:25)
Yep. So as a direct,
yes, so as a director that could very easily come across as that you don't care. And we all know that different people have different types of love languages. And it is a shame that we kind of generalize and assume that everybody wants that as a gift, where it could be a thank you card or spending time.
with folks or that that gift could be something as simple as a meal. ⁓ So I think that what's also hard is it depends on the director too, right? So if the director is a, need words of affirmation or I need a gift and the owner's just not that type of person anyway, it kind of comes across from the beginning as an issue. So.
⁓ It's one of those things that if you've never done a love language assessment with you or even with your coworkers, I'm going to suggest doing it because what's also really interesting is ⁓ we have a situation kind of where Carrie was sharing where that same owner is very much an affirmation and the gift person. So when it's their birthday, they very much expect people to be all on board for something like a birthday.
And so again, could be sending mixed messages. So ⁓ if you are a director and you think it's your job to make sure that your staff have an end of the year ⁓ gift, maybe it's a, maybe you call it a Christmas gift. ⁓ And ⁓ maybe your owner doesn't see that. Have a face to face, preferably conversation. You might even ⁓ have some outlines.
⁓ or some examples and just instead of perhaps maybe coming up with individual gifts for everybody, maybe it's just the directors or admin or maybe it is taking people to dinner and saying it is from the organization, from the company or maybe it has to actually come from the owner personally. Everybody's going to be slightly different. One of the situations that we know has had happen is
how many of y'all listening had some extra money in 2020 and 2021? And with that extra money, you did some things that staff really appreciated, but yet, this is that disconnect, right? So now the owner feels like the staff expect that, or maybe the staff do because you did something that was...
incredibly out of the box, but they loved it. But they didn't necessarily tell you how much they appreciated it until you did something that was different.
Carrie Casey (11:20)
Yeah, I think
I think that that definitely happens is that when some sort of appreciation is done for the staff or done for the admin team, and the owner doesn't see or hear any recognition of that recognition. They're like,
I just spent $400 for a Christmas party and a third of the people didn't even show up. I'm done, we're not doing this anymore. Well, the two thirds who did show up had a great time and they talk to each other and say, it's so great to be able to see you outside. I love the Secret Santa, right? But that information isn't getting communicated up the chain of command. And if you're the director and you're hearing that,
take note of it and send it up because your owner needs to hear the words of recognition and confirmation and appreciation.
Kate Woodward Young (12:23)
So
as a director, my role would have been to make sure that I send a thank you note to the owner, that I encourage those who really said something to me about how much they appreciated it and encourage them to also send a handwritten thank you note because that takes a little more time than just sending a text. But send a text, send a voice message, send something. But as the director, it's my job to identify. I need to be the translator.
for my staff
Carrie Casey (12:53)
you
Kate Woodward Young (12:53)
to help them make sure that the owner understands that the staff appreciated it. But this also means that as a director, if we host something that's going to be coming from the owner, ⁓ we have to have those conversations early at the beginning, right? Is the owner coming or not coming? ⁓ Am I signing ⁓ any sort of a gift card or even a Christmas card? Do I sign it from me?
Carrie Casey (12:58)
Yeah.
Kate Woodward Young (13:22)
Do I sign it from the organization? Do I sign it from the team? Because I've also seen folks who are like, well, if I'm paying for it out of the school's petty cash fund, I'm just going to write my own name because the owner didn't want it done. But the thing is, is that's still the owner's money. That's still the organization's money, right? So you got to be careful about ⁓ how as a director, you translate that to the staff. Cause if the staff think everything came from you and it
didn't, and it actually really was paid for by the owner.
Carrie Casey (13:54)
Well, I mean, I think that also comes back to what is the standard operating procedure, right? If the standard operating procedure is that each director of of a school has $600 available for staff appreciation through the year, and some directors choose to have one big party or one big event, and others choose to send out things for the anniversary of those people being hired.
and for birthdays and for congratulations you earned your CDA like that needs to be conveyed from the director to the team and say this is what I'm going to do with our staff appreciation money. Our owner or our board has set aside money for teacher appreciation and this is what I as the director am choosing to do with that teacher appreciation money.
Kate Woodward Young (14:53)
except here's the right here's the here's
Carrie Casey (14:53)
And that way, there's the
clarity that the money came from the owner and was put into the budget.
Kate Woodward Young (15:00)
if you have more than one location, there has to be some discussion about whether or not each location does things differently or not. Because if one of the one school has a big party at the holiday season and the other school doesn't, there's a definite sends a message. And if at the one school people are getting anniversaries or birthday presents ⁓ or other recognition, again, also a disconnect on what's going on there. So
Carrie Casey (15:27)
Right, it's
again, clarity and communication. what are some...
Kate Woodward Young (15:30)
Absolutely. So what's
another, where's another situation, Carrie? ⁓ Another phrase, because we can stay on that one topic all day if we're not careful.
Carrie Casey (15:40)
Yep,
I mean, another one, I mean, there's always ⁓ conversations about enrollment, right? ⁓ Why are there only 12 children in the older toddler classroom? That classroom is licensed for 18. Why are there only 12? So that sounds kind of accusatory, right? Why are there only 12 kids instead of 18?
Kate Woodward Young (15:56)
Alright, so.
Yeah, and as a director,
yeah, and as a director, that's where my staff like the number, right? So my staff like having the two teachers, the 12 kids. This is what makes them happy. And every time I try to put another kid in the classroom, the teachers get grumpy. And so when I'm doing a tour, they aren't really ⁓ polite or receptive or kind to the parents. So I don't even...
I don't even show that room. I show a different toddler room and different teachers. And so this is what I'm doing because in my mind, my job is to protect my staff. Now, Carrie, if that's my thinking and you're an owner and you're frustrated because there are six empty spots that are not being filled in that classroom, what does that say to you? And what do you need to tell me that maybe you just assume I know?
Carrie Casey (16:59)
That that $6,000 we don't have available every month, or you know, whatever six times those your your tuition is, but easy math $1,000, right? So that's $6,000 I don't have for all the other things that you want to do with the program. And
If those teachers cannot handle 18 kids, then you need to up level those staff. You need to train those staff and you need to explain to those staff what the expectation is. And the expectation is that this classroom can take 18 kids. And if they're both brand new and they both, you know, are less than six months in that toddler classroom, I can give you some grace for some months.
But I can't give you grace for two years.
Kate Woodward Young (17:51)
Why, but why do I carry it? I'm the director. Why do I need to have it? There's plenty of money in the budget. Why do I need to have those other six kids?
Carrie Casey (18:00)
because every classroom has to cover its own budget. Every classroom is its own little bubble and at 12, that classroom may not be covering its budget because toddler classrooms frequently have a larger per kid square footage because toddlers need a lot of room to move. So we can't keep, you know, whatever it is, 35 square feet.
per child in a toddler room. need more than that. We need like 40 or 45 because they need more room. So they have more of the rent or mortgage that needs to be paid in that classroom. So we have to be able to cover the expenses of that room because every room has to cover its own expenses. That's.
Kate Woodward Young (18:45)
So an owner should share with
the director what the, at the absolute least, a break even point is, and maybe even the owner should kind of help the director understand that without that, I mean, if you do the math, that's $72,000 a year, right? So that probably makes the difference on whether or not they could have a floater during lunch, probably makes the difference on raises, googly eyes, all kinds of things, right? So. ⁓
Carrie Casey (19:10)
Yep.
Kate Woodward Young (19:11)
As a director, what's a good way to share that with me as a director who may not know that? And you're assuming I know. How could you help me even a little bit understand that?
Carrie Casey (19:25)
Well, I mean, I think the the explaining that every room has its own expenses. And yes, we have the center wide, this is the pay scale. And just saying the only way we can operate the way that is best practice is if we have a buffer, if we have some some money so that when we need to hire an extra floater,
or have a dedicated floater in that toddler classroom because there's some biting happening in the classroom. So we want a floater in there for four hours a day instead of wandering the halls because this week is a biting week. So we need that floater in there. I can only do that if there's enough money in the budget for so it's finding out what's in it for them. What is the what is their pain point? What is the pain point for that director? Is it the
having the flexible staffing and being overstaffed so that I can pull somebody into a classroom when there's a behavior issue or is it that they want to refurbish the playground or every director has things that are in their head that they're trying to get the owner to spend money on that the owner is like, I don't have the money to spend on that right now because you've got six openings in the toddler classroom.
Kate Woodward Young (20:49)
Absolutely.
Carrie Casey (20:50)
So what's in it for
them and talk about it from that perspective.
Kate Woodward Young (20:53)
I think that's great. I also think it's probably important because again, as a director, I'm doing envelope math and I'm like, you're bringing in 12,000 a month in that classroom. if just telling me that I have to cover my expenses doesn't work if you haven't shared with me what those numbers are. And
Carrie Casey (21:11)
Right, and
I think the break even and say this room has to be at 14 kids in order to cover all of its expenses.
Kate Woodward Young (21:18)
But you might need to share with me again, depending on even the background of the director, because some directors come with a business background and so they actually know all of the expenses that happened in the building. But if I'm a fairly new director in my late twenties or early thirties who went from being a teacher to a director, I may not realize all of those expenses. And so you may have to literally spell it out for me, for me to understand that
just for that room to be open before there's any kids, before there's even a teacher, it costs X amount of money. And that's because we have rent, have utilities, we have pest control, we have insurance.
Carrie Casey (22:01)
Yeah, I was about to say, you know, I think the fact Yeah, it's part of the overhead yeah, and and so again it's gonna depend on
Kate Woodward Young (22:03)
that the director's salary, like, where does my, who pays my salary? So I think that sometimes directors forget that their salary or the admin team as a whole, all of their salaries get sprinkled amongst all those classrooms. Like that's not a, like that has to be paid by somebody. So it is part of the overhead. Yeah.
Carrie Casey (22:30)
What are the specific skills of the owner of the director of the regional manager if you've got a regional manager, but When you're having resistance because teachers don't want more kids in a classroom
we need to look at up leveling the skills of those teachers. And that is the director's job. That is not the regional manager or the owner's job. That is the director's job. But they don't know it's their job if their boss doesn't tell them it's their job. They think that their job is to take care of their staff and retain their staff, which it is. But I don't want to retain my staff at the skill and training level they were when they got that job.
the whole part of your job is to develop the team so that they're getting better and better and better is one of those things that I think we do a decent job of talking about it in our director credentialing class, but I never heard it in any of my college courses that was never brought up in any of my college classes in childcare administration, never. And I think
That's one of those huge disconnects between an owner and a director.
Kate Woodward Young (23:43)
Absolutely. so just closing thoughts, if you are an owner and you're listening to this and you don't know your breakeven points for your rooms, reach out to us and we will get you some worksheets and we can even set up some consulting calls and help you with that. If you are a director and you don't know what the breakeven number is, so in other words, if your owner hasn't shared with you that you have to have
14 kids in a classroom to cover the expenses or that you don't understand that your infants will never make a profit because you're looking at the expense or the amount of money that comes in and you're like, that's gotta be profitable. We always need all the infants. Chances are that's not necessarily the case. And we can definitely show you some examples of that. If you're listening to this and you're like going, okay, they are so speaking, not my language. Today, ⁓
Carrie Casey (24:32)
it
Kate Woodward Young (24:36)
We are actually doing a workshop with ECI webinars on that director owner disconnect. And if you are listening to the podcast before 12 o'clock Eastern on the 26th of February, go grab, go listen to us more on this topic, another 90 minutes, or you can always catch the replay. in the show notes ⁓ after about, well, tomorrow,
So on 2 27, we will
Carrie Casey (25:06)
Okay.
Kate Woodward Young (25:08)
show the share the replay link of that webinar. And hopefully you have joined our newsletter list because childcare conversations does have a newsletter that goes out twice a week. If you go to childcare conversations.com, subscribe to the podcast newsletter and we will make sure that you also get that update. And sometimes we even share, I don't know.
some tips, some tricks, even some things to download to help you make sure that you get the most out of these episodes.
Carrie Casey (25:42)
So we'll talk to you in a few days.
