346: Are You Waiting Too Long to Make Tough Staffing Decisions?

In this episode of Childcare Conversations, Kate and Carrie get real about the hidden costs of delayed decision-making in childcare leadership. Using everything from melted Easter ice cream to "emotional support underwear" as metaphors, they break down how holding onto disengaged staff can quietly drain your program — we're talking potentially $62K a year in lost tuition! They also tackle slow enrollment strategies and ineffective job ads. The bottom line? Making tough calls quickly is actually an act of kindness — for your team, your families, and even the person moving on.

Thanks for Listening 🎧

• Want to learn more? Check out our book; "From Overwhelmed to I Got This: Guaranteed Success Route to Directing Your Childcare Center" 📖
• Join our Facebook Group for Childcare professionals!
• Join our Podcast Newsletter!
• Want to be a guest on our podcast? Go to our website to learn more.
• Are you looking for director training in Texas? Check out our Texas Director Website for our training and additional resources!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Child Care Conversations, the podcast where early childhood leaders like you get real-world strategies, honest talk, and a whole lot of support. Whether you're running one center or many, we're here to help you lead with confidence and clarity. This episode is brought to you by CenterIQ. If you've ever added a child to a classroom, adjusted staffing, or made a quick schedule change, and then spent the next two weeks fixing the ripple effects, you're not alone. Most leaders make decisions and then see what happens. CenterIQ's decision intelligence lets you see what happens before you decide. Start your free trial today at centeriQ.io. Now, let's get into today's conversation. One we think you're really going to love.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

All right, we're gonna talk more about decision making today. And today it's gonna be about what does it cost if you actually wait to make a decision?

SPEAKER_02 1:02

I mean, sometimes it costs somebody else eating the rest of your ice cream. Because I have You need some ice cream. You really do. You need some ice cream. I mean, the problem is that this company makes custom ice cream, and the fl my favorite flavor is only made around Easter, and my I kept waiting to eat the last of it. And by the time I got around to it, my husband had already eaten it, and it's very sad. It's very, very sad. I did not get the rest of my ice cream.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Okay, well, so we're gonna talk about um delayed decisions and financial impact. I'm in a child care program, in an early learning program. Doesn't mean that you had to go buy more ice cream. Uh so until next year. This is a big deal, Kate. Well, I'm gonna try to get through an episode. So um I want to talk about something, Carrie, that I know that you and I sometimes don't always agree with. We do agree a hundred percent when it comes to staffing that you should hire slowly and get the right person and get the right fit. And then conceptually, we're like fire fast. Yes. Now, we both have different versions of fire fast. Mine is like today. And Carrie's is more progressive because she really wants them to quit. And she wants them to think it's their idea. But either way, if you've got staff, so can can can we can we share a story? I mean, you can, sure, go for it. Have a good time. Okay. So I know that this is not a snor story unique to us or even to the people that we know, but I am sure that everybody listening at some point in time has had a staff person who seems to always just have a bad day. And so you're like, okay, well, maybe they're just having a bad day. So the kids like them okay, the parents like them okay, and they're not horrible, but all of a sudden you've got some staff that are calling in sick and they don't want to work in that room. Maybe even, you know, you've got some staff or some parents who've left that room. How do we know that that is a teacher decision? Like, what should be some things we're looking at to go? Ooh, you've lost two kids and you have staff who keep quitting out of that one room. There's there's a problem there.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

I mean, I think that's a pretty clear sign that that that person probably needs to go. Um, so here's the thing: you see signs that someone is has either burned out or overstayed their interest in the classroom. And they have gotten to a point, so some of them they've just, it is so much on them in their personal life or at work, and they're just having a hard time having the energy for what we need to do in this field. And that's the burnout, right? They they've they're just their cup is empty, they don't have anything else to pour out. The other side is the person who's just like, I know how to do this job in my sleep. I'm gonna show up and work like I'm asleep. And they snap at the kids more often. They aren't really engaging when they're doing group activities, they're not really engaging, they're doing a lot more lifeguarding than actually making a connection with the kids. And when that happens, we have to step in and we have to have hard conversations with that person. And I'm not saying it's a hard conversation like you're afraid you're gonna get punched in the face. I'm saying it's a hard conversation because you're gonna have to ask questions that are gonna make them uncomfortable. And so asking that question is probably gonna make you uncomfortable. That's why it's a difficult conversation, not because there's a threat of violence, but because there's a threat of discomfort. And for some people, they would rather have the fight, the conversation that ends up with a fight, than the conversation that ends up with me feeling uncomfortable. And there is a life cycle to the teacher. Um, and I don't remember who originally posited this. You know, I read articles in the 80s, in the 90s, in the like I've read articles for decades about the life cycle of a teacher. I wish I could credit the person who came up with the concept because I have read her original article. I just don't remember her name. Um, but it's kind of like a romantic relationship cycle, right? There's the honeymoon phase. There's the, I am so excited about everything and I don't know how to do anything, right? That unconscious, so they are conscious that they are incompetent, right? They they know that they don't know anything and they're super excited about it. And then there's this phase where they think they kind of have it down. They kind of like, we are dating, we have this figured out, it's it's working. I know how this is gonna, I know who's gonna eat the fries when we order food at the restaurant, kind of a thing. In childcare, it's more like I know what the routine, what the rhythm of the day is gonna be, like I can handle most things that happen in my classroom. And then you get to this point where they get kind of sure that they know what's happening. Conscious competence. Yes, I know what I'm doing. But but but we want to get to the next one. So then there's this phase where they're just kind of taking it for granted and nothing is exciting anymore. They used to call this the seven-year itch in marriages, right? Or in relationships. So this whole, but maybe it would be better if I worked at Chick-fil-A.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Okay. So we have this person who obviously has a I don't give up attitude. And why is this decision costing us money? Help me understand how the decision to let them go is costing me money, Carrie.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Well, because you just said that two families left and you also had a staff person quit. So that right there is a couple thousand dollars. If they are not being able to engage with the parents, and parents are leaving before transitioning into that classroom or are quitting that classroom, every one of those kids we can put their tuition for the rest of the normal life cycle at your center kind of at her feet. And if it happens once every six months, it's no big deal. But if it's happening more than once every six months, it's an issue.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Let's do some, let's do some math on that real quick, Carrie. Okay, let me get the calculator out. Okay, so we got a preschool teacher who, you know, everybody loved her. Not everybody currently loves her. So part of your thought process is you know, she was almost an asset, like she was part of our sales pitch. Like people always wanted to be in her classroom. But all of a sudden, you've got parents that are all going to a different school at the end of twos, and it's not because it's free. And so you're expecting 10 kids to roll up and you only have four. That's six kids.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Okay, so how much money is that? Let's say it's two hundred dollars a week.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Woo! Okay, so twelve hundred a week you've now lost times fifty-two. That's sixty-two thousand dollars. So sixty-two thousand, that that's a that's a lot of money, Carrie. That really that's a decision that if you don't nip it in the bud, like I would hope that families are going to know, or I'm hoping that you, as the director, the leader, the administrator, the owner, hopefully you caught that before you got to six kids.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Or if allow them that you have it for several months. I mean, I think even if you can't catch it before it gets to several months, if you're at if you're at 12 months of paying that person their normal wage and their enrollment has gone from 24 down to 14, then we have a huge issue. And I have seen this at programs. I see this at way too many programs. And there, the answer I get when I say, why are you still paying two teachers for that classroom that used to have 24 that now has 14? And they're like, Well, you know, they've been with the school for more than 10 years, and I know that enrollment will pick back up. It's just because the free pre-K is in the area now, or it's just because it's the summer break, or it's just because.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

If you're saying about that, just that second staff person, Carrie. I mean, how much is that? That second staff person is how much a month? I don't know what you're paying them.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

But the here's the thing if you're saying it's just because that phrase is a signal. That is a red flag being waved in your face, and you're waving it at your own face and you're ignoring it. It's just because this person is no longer showing up on time. It's just because they have a cat and the cat sits on them, and so they can't get up.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

It's just because they're having quit telling on my cats. My cats do that all the time, and I don't want to get up. It's not that I can't, I just don't want up.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

It's just because they're they're being tardy. It's just because their car is older. You know what? So is my car, and I still can get places. And if I don't think my car is gonna go, there are these apps where you can go on your phone and push some buttons and someone will pick you up and drive you to work. This is not the 1950s where you were gonna have to walk three miles to work if your car didn't work. There are apps that will come and get you, and some of them don't even have drivers. So that is not an excuse that I'm gonna accept anymore, is it's just because they have an older car. If you're saying it's just because, that is a sign to you that you need to have a meeting with that person.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

All right. So, Carrie, we have to have a meeting. We're losing money, we've lost 10 kids. Now we've got a second teacher. I mean, you could easily be at almost six figures if you don't nip this in the bud for a year. Right. And so you can lay people off. You can, I mean, I know this seems like a foreign term to some folks, but you know, you can lay people off if you've got your enrollment down. That's not really firing them, but it is saving your budget because I don't know about you, Carrie, but if I don't have the money to pay people, I'd rather let people go, even if it's just for a short time, so that I can pay the bills. And otherwise I won't be there.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

So that your business will be there in three months. You're doing a disservice to the rest of your team if you keep someone on who is draining the resources of your program, because those other people in your team are going to need those resources three months down the road. And if you've depleted them, eh, it's a problem. And if you're keeping them just because they've been with you for 10 years is not a reason to keep them.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

I mean, my favorite is well, you know, they used to be full of joy and they used to have a lot of energy. And I'm like, okay, used to. Or, well, I've noticed I've had to come in and ask questions about why things aren't getting done. Or when I ask them if they did it, they tell me no. And I'm like, okay, so if they keep telling you no, why you why are they still there?

SPEAKER_02 12:50

So this reminds me of a phenomenon I've seen on the internet that I didn't know was a thing. People who have emotional support underwear. That it used to be really good underwear, and they just keep it because it's their lucky underwear, but really it needs to go, hon. Are they athletes? I didn't. This is a thing that the internet told me exists. I don't know the details. But like I'm not sure. Is this really a child care conversations conversation? But the elastic is gone in that staff person. They are no longer snapping back the way they need to. Let them go. Let them go. It's not a compression garment. It's no longer doing its job. Again, I don't know why weird thoughts pop into my head, but they do. But it it can be a security, you know, that staff person may be your security object. They have been with you through, they were with you through COVID. They were with you before COVID, and you don't want to let them go. You were co-teachers together before you got promoted to teach to director. I get it, but sometimes you just gotta let it go, girl.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

It's kind of like those relationships, right? Where those people are like in a relationship and then they're out of a relationship and then they're in a relationship and then they're out of a relationship. You need to just be done.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

No yo-yo dieting with your uh yo-yo dating with your staff. No yo-yo dating with your staff. We've got velcro daters, yo-yo daters. There's I got a whole thing about that kind of stuff. We're not gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

So, I mean, and this is an example. I mean, this is just one of many examples that a slow decision is going to cost you money. Last week we talked about um the enrollment cycle and how sometimes you've got to make decisions based off of data. Well, if you're placing ads and you're doing ads that are a couple hundred dollars a week or a couple thousand dollars a month, and you're not sure the ad is working, that slow decision to make a change is costing you money.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

Oh, that one costs a lot of money. That one costs a lot of money. Some of those platforms are very, very expensive. And a lot of job postings aren't ads. They're an excuse to try to get people to fall asleep while reading what you wrote. Like you're just writing something for people to help with their insomnia. I don't, I don't understand why you're paying money to put the, you know, those things.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Are you talking about those indeed job descriptions that really should be a want that everybody makes it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen them on LinkedIn. Yeah, so so if you're if your job ads aren't working or your you know, enrollment marketing isn't working, you could be spending thousands of dollars. And I don't know about you, Carrie. I have not met a whole lot of child care centers that have a few thousand dollars to let happen every month.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

No. And they go, but Carrie, I have to run the ad on Indeed. That's the place where I got my best teacher four years ago. Girl Hun, it's not four years ago. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. It's time to move on and see what is working today. Today, Facebook Marketplace ads are working better. And even better than that is, of course, the referral from your existing staff or parents, which has been the answer for the best performing type of job posting for decades now, but people don't like to do it because it makes you feel vulnerable. You have to tell somebody, I haven't been able to find a good person for the toddler room on my own. Would you help me? It's not that.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Oh, it's that whole you know what? That that brings me up to earlier today when I was talking to some folks. I used the term superwoman and that I got really frustrated because so many directors think they're superheroes. And I just want you to know that that damn cape is an accessory. Stop making it who you are because if you don't ask for help, you're not gonna be around. And yes, Carrie has mentioned a couple of times that we fall into the older category and um, you know, I don't know, five decades or something like that, and she thinks we're old. And so, but what we really are is experience, and as a result, we know what we will and will not put up with. And so sometimes our tolerance is a little bit less, but sometimes some of y'all who are listening to these episodes are as old as we are, or maybe even a little older. And you need somebody to tell you point blank what's going on. If you want somebody to be nice and to be your best friend, then you're listening to the wrong podcast. Because we're gonna tell you something. If you are waiting too long and you're having to put the money into the program to pay the bills, there's a problem. I feel like I feel like one of those comedians, right? You might be if this is well, you might have a problem if.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

Yeah, I mean, if if you as the administrator are not getting your needs financially met because you are holding on to staff who need to have been offboarded out of your program, that is not you being kind. That is, you have to put the oxygen mask on yourself first. Clarity is kindness. When someone has outlived their time in our field for the moment, we need to help them to realize it and to move on. They will be happier for some time working in retail or selling houses or something like that. They can always come back to early childhood. Our industry is always going to be here. But if they are burned out or if they are treating this like a job and not a profession, they need to go, at least for the time being. And you have to be clear about that. Clarity is kindness to that person and to the other people on your team. Don't let people sit there and be grumpy and miserable at this job. If they are grumpy and miserable working in childcare, when they have access to Play-Doh, they need to find something else to do. Maybe they want to go be a bartender and sling drinks for five years. I don't know. They need to go do something else.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

Can they dance? Can they be, can they, can they be? I'm gonna go with cocktail versus some of the other versions. It could be a cocktail, boy, that really did age me, didn't it? They're still old.

SPEAKER_02 19:30

Um they, you know, there are lots of other jobs that people can do that if they are tired of dealing with children vomiting. Okay, so I guess bartending is not a good segue because they're still vomiting.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

They could just move it, but they, you know what where they would be great? If you have been in the industry for more than 10 years and you've noticed you've got some staff that are kind of losing their their energy for being in the classroom, help them find that resource and referral agency position. Help them find the compliance, the licensing lady. Because we always need people who actually understand the job in those roles. Because a lot of times we get people who are like, oh yeah, I got a degree in early childhood, but they've only ever worked in a lab school. That doesn't work as a licensing rep for the people who have to work with the licensing rep. I'm not saying that those people aren't good at their job. However, half the time, you know, the directors have to train them. Okay, so with that, Carrie.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

Okay, guys, we got on a couple of little soapboxes here and there. But again, make the decisions quickly. Do not spend six weeks trying to just to rehabilitate somebody who is really checked out. If they're checked out, give them two opportunities to turn it around and then get them out of there. One strike, two strike, three strikes, you're out of there. Give them two opportunities because maybe they are just stressed out because um I use this example, I think last month, their cat's tail got run over by a car and it's just stressing them out. That's okay. Bring it to their attention that it's affecting their job at work. They realize it, they turn it around, cool. But if they can't turn it around, then they need to go somewhere where they don't have to be as present emotionally and intellectually. And that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

They can come back later. Absolutely. And on that note, don't forget to come back and find us. We're here every couple of days. And go to www.childcareconversations.com. Sign up for our newsletter. Did you know we send out a newsletter twice a week? And if you're not really sure it's an episode you want to listen to, go check out the newsletter. We'd love to have you join us. We can't wait to see you in a few more days.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Thanks for tuning in. We love bringing you real talk and fresh insight from the world of early child. Childhood Education. Be sure to follow us on social media to stay connected and catch all of the latest episodes. And if you're planning a conference, training, or special event, Kate and Carrie would love to speak to your audience. You can learn more about their keynote sessions and workshops at KateandKery.com. If you learned something today, share the show and leave us a review below. We'll see you next time on Child Care Conversations.